Can a Woman Be Too Successful For a Mate?
My friends and I were discussing this MSN article, Too successful for a mate?, over email a few days ago. The opening paragraph states:
The majority of my most successful, good-looking, educated, talented girlfriends are still single.
If they had Y chromosomes, they would have been married a decade ago. Instead, like successful single women all over the country, they trek into their mid- to late 30s on their own — experiencing fabulous professional success, buying real estate and making savvy investments for the future, without much going on in the relationship department.
This article caught my attention after writing about Mr. Eye Candy’s plan to “upgrade” me. LOL! Would this man be as interested if he thought I were more accomplished? Well, my friends and I were having a very lively discussion about this topic and the article, so I wanted to continue it on the blog. I’m going to reserve comment here - for the time being - because I don’t want to influence opinions. However…
Debt Hater has shared her thoughts.
BK has also shared her thoughts.
Now I’d like to hear from YOU.
Are successful woman doomed for single-dom?
If you agree, how can a successful woman attract an ‘equal’ partner?
If you disagree, why do you think so many successful women remain single?
And to all of my male readers, I’m really interested in your thoughts.
~*~*~*~*~*~Work to achieve, not to acquire.
And as always, BE FABULOUS!
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I suppose the answer will depend quite a bit on the definition of success.
If its collecting real estate, piling up the mullahs and travelling endlessly on all kind of assignments, it may not work for someone who wants to have a “home” to come back to.
I consider my wife successful, (if I may use your words, fabulously successful), but she does not have a career. She has very successfully managed my family, including extended family. Without her, I think I would not have gotten halfway to where I am now.
I learned when asking a male friend.. to a few of them.. money = power and if the woman makes more money then she controls the relationship.
Another guy didn’t care that I made more money than he did.. he owned his own home and I didn’t so he felt we were “balanced”.
I guess it depends on what the man values more right.. LOL I don’t understand *to coin the term from DH* Man logic LOL
I love your blog single ma and I have never been urged to comment until today. This subject is so near and dear to my heart…
Yes, I do believe it is harder for a successful single woman to find a mate but no, I don’t think it is impossible. Like other people have mentioned I guess it all depends on what each individual defines as successful. I’ve worked very hard to get myself where I am right now and I am proud of it. I plan on bringing as much to the table as possible to make myself the best wife, mother, manager, etc. possible. I would like a man to take pride in the fact that if something where to happen to him or he were to ever get sick or hurt, I would be able to step up and keep our ship on a steady course. I am not your opponent, I am your helpmate.
I believe successful women are something that men, especially those that have not achieved a lot, are quite intimidated by. If a big bone of contention is financials in a relationship, the male testosterone would in turn expect to have the upper hand. I know that I would be intimidated but at the same time attracted to such a woman. It’s a real tossup when thinking about it.. There are so many factors but certainly the ego plays a big part.
I definately think that I am sucessful. My husband really appreciates what I do and how I contribue to the household. I think he realises that he is much better off with me. Sounds big headed but just trying to say that if you meet the right man he will appreciate you.
Oh, this question grates on me.
I only date smart egalitarian guys who are looking for a partner. In a partner, don’t you want someone as awesome as possible who also inspires you to be as awesome as possible? Who would want someone inferior so that they could feel superior in comparison? Bleh! Or who could feel fatherly in comparison? (Plenty of kids need adult figures–go find some of them!)
(I also would need someone who could handle my having male friends. And even touching my male friends because I like ballroom dancing!)
That said, I do understand that money is power. I make substantially less than most guys I’ve dated, so I’ve thought about what the money situation would be like if I got married. I would feel guilty if we pooled all our money together and each got half when I make so much less. But I am unwilling to work more hours or take on more stress in order to make more. I would rather live very frugally. (It’s sort of like taking some of my retirement early, while I’m still young.) So it gets complicated.
Disclaimer: I am not overly successful, good-looking, or talented, but I am overly educated and smart. Also, I am still single at age 45.
In terms of education, I am pursuing a higher degree than my boyfriend has. he has a master’s and I am a doctorate student in engineering. He is so far probably the most supportive human I have seen other than my parents for my phd education. I do agree with Rachel, I think a man who wants the best for you who wants you to be independent, who wants a smart strong woman will definitely support and appreciate you.
If a man only has a GED or HS diploma, I can see the disparity. But I wonder if education really matters as much as money and career success.
I have an MBA, Mr EC does not. The difference does not reflect in our careers, earnings, business savvy, or social life. I guess it depends on how large the gap or how it impacts other areas of your life. Mr. EC told me “if” I earned more $$ than him (I don’t), he wouldn’t mind as long as it wasn’t THAT much more. Ha! [-SM]
I don’t think successful women are doomed for single-dom. However, I do think successful women have to turn themselves “off” for men. I don’t mean you have to be all meek and mild or act like a damsel in distress. I mean that the traits you use to be successful in the workplace can cause trouble in the home and in a relationship. Men and women are equal, BUT WE ARE NOT THE SAME. Men don’t want to feel like they are with their homeboys, they want to feel like they are with a woman. It’s not about who makes more money, dollar for dollar, but you have to be compatible in other ways. My mother makes more money than my father and they have been married 30 years. My father has more education but because of their fields, my mother makes more.
I love your comment. It resonated with me.
This is one of the hardest lessons I’ve learned in the past two years. The same traits I use to establish a professional career are damaging to my personal life. Admittedly, I was at fault of ruining my previous relationship with those traits. I had to do a lot of introspection before I could realize it, so I’m trying very hard not to make the same mistake.
Mr. Eye Candy is a VERY “wanna be in charge” type of guy. He’s also the very traditional “open/close my car door, pull out my chair, ask me what I want before the waitress comes so he can order for me, select my drinks/desserts by remembering my preferences” type of guy. I love the way he treats me, but I’m not used to it, so I have to turn off my “single mom/manager” hat when I’m in his presence. When you’re used to being in control and running the ship (either by choice or circumstance), toning it down and taking the passenger seat can be difficult. But the small change is worth it for a man who makes me feel safe, comfortable, and protected under his guidance. Mr EC does that very well, which is why I’m so attracted to him. [-SM]
I’m so glad that you’re asking this question, Single Ma. Also, I’m tripping over the irony because right next to the blog on the webpage is an advertisement for Asian “mail-order” brides.
I agree to some extent with Debbie M. — I am lucky enough to be married to a smart man looking for a Partner in life. I’m a Progressive Christian, and I have to say, I don’t get down with the whole “man is the head of the household” thing. I think that way of doing things cripples men AND women. So my husband and I head our household together. But I think what helped me find my hubster (and what helped scare some knuckleheads away) is that I had a sense my value as a person, a potential partner, and a sense of what I wanted in a mate. I think really often, women wait to be chosen, or at least posture like they’re waiting to be chosen, instead of participating in choosing for themselves. I think the pressure to take on this kind of pose is even harder on black women because of the way that we’re so often fighting a stereotype of us as bitches/Sapphire/ballbreakers, etc, etc.
Let Mr. EC tell it, he chose me. But he has no idea that I peeped him out my very FIRST day on the job. Hence the term “eye candy.” LOL It just took a little while to position myself so he could pursue me. He likes to feel “in charge” so I’d never tell him that.
[-SM]
Single Ma,
I am a man with a successful wife. In fact, she makes more money than I do and I have no issue with that.
I disagree with some of the comments that say “money = power” and men love power, so if a woman has more money than a man then he is not interested in her. This is not the case most of the time.
Those comments were from other MEN, she was just the messenger. [-SM]
However, it is true that some men are often turned-off by the qualities that it takes to become successful in the business and political realm. For example, Hillary Clinton is very successful because many of the qualities she has (ie. extreme ambition, ruthlessness, etc). Although these qualities make successful business people and politicians, there are many men who are not attracted by those qualities.
Let’s face it, most men like sweet, gentle, compassionate, and loving women. Unfortunately, these qualities are not as equally appreciated or rewarded in the business world.
True, true. The difficulty for women is finding that delicate balance. Your wife is a very smart woman. Thanks for being honest and sharing your thoughts. [-SM]
Life is trip Single Ma! I’m 29 y/o, have modeled, been a journalist, lived all over the country and more…I’m not wealthy by any means, but men are intimidated by me. They tell me that all the time. Their phrase is, “I have to step my game up with you.” But they quickly fall by the wayside because they’re lazy. Over the years, I’ve refined my expectations in an open-minded way. While I still prefer men I date to at least have the same stats I possess: single, never been married, no kids, educated — that’s not the reality. Now, I will date men with one child (can’t do the multiple baby mamas), and divorcees, and educated doesn’t mean a having a college-degree. You just need to be driven and goal-oriented.
What I find difficult in the dating game is meeting men with good character and integrity. Most of them are just grimy and shady. I don’t waste my time wading thru the muck and mire. I’m grateful for the discernment of spirit.
What a topic!
Do I believe a successful woman can have a great spouse? Absolutely. Is this going to be the same relationship model as we’ve seen on Leave It To Beaver or any other show? Not really. It depends on those in the relationship. A strong, successful woman can marry a more successful man, an equally successful man or a less successful man. The hardest of these relationships is the equally successful man — the two in the relationship need to iron out how things are handled before an emergency crops up.
I know plenty of less successful men who would love a relationship with a Sugar Mama. I even find these men on dating sites. My female real estate attorney is married to an electricion. She has more education and makes more money, but their relationship has been going on for more than thirty years.
Anything can work. It depends on what the people involved want and are willing to work toward.
I agree with Y and Justin. Men are attracted to successful women, but the qualities that it takes for a women to be successful in business are not the qualities that make a successful relationship. I have been dating the same guy for 3 years and we are planning to get married. At least for the next couple of years, I will make more money then him. And while I think he wishes that were different (not because money = power, but he was taught that men should be the breadwinner), he is content with the fact that I have worked extremely hard to get where I am. But if I used the same strategy in our relationship as I use in the workforce our relationship would not last.
A major time committment is required to be successful. I think that is part of the reason men have it a bit easier, they get a wife they know can run the home while they are focused on other things.
A man might think he wants a successful woman but when she has to fit him into her busy schedule, or when she isn’t available when he’d like her to be, its a problem. Some men can deal, others act as if they can’t turn the oven on or spend time alone.
Women can be as successful as they want but most men are still going to look at them to be home to prepare dinner, grocery shop, do laundry and do all the things a successful woman doesn’t really have time for. Success doesn’t happen between the hours of M-F 9 to 5 and I think most men can deal with a woman who has a regular work day, so she can be attentive to him. But once that woman gets to the success stature with professional influence, the fellas start wondering where they fit in.
I often hear women disparage women who are trying to have it all. The reason men can have it all, family, career whatever else is because they have a woman who shares the load. Men can get a bit hesistant to share loads that would allow the woman to have it all. Heck I know working women who think their husband is sweet because he prepared a meal. These are a few of the reasons I think successful women are more likely to be single, not so much the money.
Single successful women, like men, learn to enjoy calling the shots in their life and controlling their destiny. Most men like being in charge, and so successful women find they’re not willing to give up characteristics that helped them succeed. Too many women marry for 1) financial security and 2) to have a father for their kids. if you create your own financial security, there are fewer compelling reasons to settle down.
I consider myself successful and I’m happily married.
I think the difference is that being married helps a man’s career (shows him as mature and responsible) but doesn’t necessarily help a woman’s career (the perception that her first priority will be the family).
Oooh, this is a tough one. It was obvious to me that I would never find anyone with my education, success, and race. I gave up, just threw in the towel, when I found my sweetie. He’s not even close in education or race, but he’s shown an entrepreneurial spirit I just don’t have. So, we have very different success. Mine very traditional (well, sort of, it is a male field), and his more entrepreneurial.
The single gals I know in their 30s–just my friends in this sample–are just picky. They only date in their race or religion or education strata. Or they have some requirement like over 6′, never been married, or can bench 400 or something. When you reach grad degrees, you have to be more open, very lucky, or both.
I used to think that it depended on the guy’s openmindedness, but I realize now that it also depends on how the woman handles it too.
I was worried, before I paired up, about whether or not I would find a guy that I wanted who didn’t mind that I have my own successes in life. I have always figured though, based on what friends and past boyfriends have told me, that it is possible. And Mister Ant shows me time and time again how possible it is.
Oh yeah - I agree with dogatemyfinances - women with success need to be open minded about who they’ll give a shot to, just as much as they want a man to be open minded about them having their own success. Most guys my age and race don’t have my level of education and vice versa…
Sorry but I don’t think this is true. If the author of this article can assert that it is true based on the unrepresentative sample of her family and friends, then I can assert that it is not true based on my family and friends. Most of the adults that I know, male and female, are in relationships or married. What about you?
Of the ones that are not married, I don’t see success as the limiting factor. In fact, I don’t know one instance where this seems to be the case. For one thing, we would have to define success. Am I successful because I have a grad degree? Is someone successful because she earns 6 figures? What about mid-five figures? What if she is happy but poor? The most successful women that I know are married or in serious relationships. High earning women in prestigious jobs, also happy in their lives. When I think of an unmarried successful woman that I know, I can only think of one. But I know more unsuccessful women who aren’t married–can’t hold down a job, unhappy. The same goes for men.
Penelope Trunk writes more interestingly about this topic, and sometimes from the point of view that it is easier for an unattached woman to become successful than for a married woman, whereas marriage generally is an asset in a man’s career. She also generally backs her writings up with some semblance of statistics.
By the way, in this article they also have a video that states that women with advanced degrees are more likely to be married. I’ve also seen statistics showing that marriages between people with advanced degrees are more likely to last.
I used to see a lot of articles with this premise, and when I was in my early twenties I worried about it. Now I am thirty and married and so are just about all of my female friends. I think this type of article works against women and is a type of propaganda that exists to keep putting women in their place, perpetuating a myth that a woman has to choose between being successful and having a man, and showing that it is always a little bit better to choose the man… But that’s just my view : )
Maybe this article over at Slate will answer your questions Single Ma
http://www.slate.com/id/2188684/
What the heck is this? “I know my place as a woman and I aspire to be a loving, nurturing wife while allowing my husband to be the head of our home.”
It is what happens when someone who thinks they are so smart try to quote a sentence out of context in a failed attempt to make their argument more valid. [-SM]
Uh, WRONG. I’ve been happily married for nineteen years (this year); I’m 43 and my husband is 41. We’re EQUALS. No way in hell would either of us consider him the head and me having “a place as a woman.”
And we’re both very successful professionals. Some years I make more money and some he does, but we don’t fight about it and we both support each other. We’re a TEAM.
I totally agree. We’re all partners in marriages, and quite frankly it’s a time issue I think, and like many commenters said, just because they’re great in business doesn’t mean they are great in relationships too… I’m sure they can be, but MANY compromises on BOTH sides have to be made, but then the question boils down to “who makes the compromises and why?”
I blogged about this too because it’s quite an interesting topic. I hope to get more answers about it!
I was just talking about this with a close friend (some pre-wedding jitters, I think). Naturally, the answer differs for everyone, but here’s out it played out for me:
I had a series of long-term relationships with (monetarily) successful type-A men, but we could never make it work - there was ALWAYS a power struggle and it always ended badly. When I met my fiance, I knew that I had found my life partner. He is the polar opposite of me - I call him my “walking prozac” - he’s laid-back, not a planner or over-achiever, but he is a good, thoughtful, soul who I love coming home to each day. I earn over twice as much as he does, and although it occassionally bugs him that I am the ‘breadwinner’ - he is bothered more about my competitive personality and the fact that I feel the need to be the ‘best’ at everything.
We work because we are honest about how we feel about money and power issues when they came up (last week he told me that I was being ‘mean’ when I kept calling our house “my house” - which it is, on paper). I am working to shifting to an ‘our’ mentality, but it’s been a challenge for me. I am a possessive brat, I know.
I’m not going to lie - sometimes I long for a fiscally equal partner - I fantasize about the big house we’d have or all of the help that we could hire (thanks to Penelope Trunk, I now want a house manager), but that’s just money. Matt is the highlight of every day - he is an equal partner is so many other ways.
There are trade-offs in every relationship. I feel lucky to found something that works for me.
Women who are successful often have too many requirement.s
I’ve thought a lot about this one, because I’m a very high-earning woman. And I suppose it says something about what I believe, that I conceal how much I earn from my family and friends. They know what I do for a living but it’s not a run-of-the-mill job, and it’s unlikely that they would find out what it pays. Also, I live way under what I can afford, so there aren’t many signals for them. All they know that I’m doing “okay.” The reason I don’t want them to know is because the things they say indicate pretty clear judgments against people with incomes outside of a certain range. I worry that if they knew, it would change how they saw me and would change how they felt about me.
I struggle with what to tell a guy and when to do so. Like it or not, there are a lot of guys for whom it’s a barrier, and they’re not necessarily bad guys. I have some married friends where the wife earns quite a bit more than the husband. It makes him feel inadequate. They met and married when they were students and had low incomes and I wonder: if they had met as they are now, would he have pursued a relationship with her? Or would he have looked for someone whose income was close to or lower than what he’s now making? They have a good marriage… but would that marriage even have had a chance if hadn’t gotten to know her when they were both at the same place economically? I don’t know.
I don’t think that women who are financially successful are doomed to being single, but it does make it harder to find a good guy who is okay with it.
Being a financially successful woman doesn’t make you any more or less likely to have a good relationship than you would be if you made $20 grand a year. I’d say what really matters is less your success and more your attitude about said success as it pertains to your partners and potentials. I’m 31, male, college educated and enjoy a decent salary; most of my friends are in similar positions. We all know women who make more and those who make less than us.
That said, I know not one guy who says “Man, I really wish I would stop meeting so many smart, accomplished women with good salaries. What I’m really looking for is one of those low-ambition models.”
I do, however, know brothers who lament that so many women wear their success as a badge of honor — something to be held up as a measuring stick against which every man they meet must stand and be evaluated. There’s nothing wrong with being proud of your accomplishments, but if you’re playing the mating game perhaps looking at what you have and have done as tools that can enable a decent future with the right partner, as opposed to a blunt object with which to swat away unwanted suitors is a better approach. Remember what they say about honey and flies.
It’s pretty unrelated, but I blogged about marriage and money here.
Although parts of it made me laugh unintentionally, this was a great comment that made me reflect about my personal thoughts and expectations of a relationship. Particularly the parts I highlighted in bold. It was very helpful for me, and I’m sure it will make a light bulb go off for another single female too. Thank you for providing a male perspective. [-SM]
Single Ma,
I think the idea is that the financially ignorant 18 year olds of today will be the first time homeowners of tomorrow (well really 5-10 years from now). So these people who bought homes they can’t afford were probably the same people doing poorly on the financial savvy quiz 10 years ago. Which means, this problem will only get worse if lenders don’t become more responsible.
Just a thoguht.
I think being successful definately makes it harder to have a mate, and being a black woman makes it at least 10 times harder.
A woman often has to choose between being career oriented or family oriented. Having a child affects a man career very little if at all. Single Ma that is why admire you so much because you are doing both. But when I look in around in my field, the most successful black women I know are all single with no children.
Excerpt from the article………….
“Experts say that highly accomplished men tend to marry women who are lower on the professional and educational food chain than they are, traditionally choosing women over whom they can exert control.”
nuf said, I think they are equally educated men, but yet they tend to want someone less powerful.
So I think when you are too successful you are a little intimidating for (some) men
I wouldn’t say intimidating… more like annoying.
If you think you’re too successful to have a mate, you’re probably correct.
Enjoy all the money…