My Tire Buying Experience: Part III (finale)
Earlier this week, I discussed tire basics (Part I) and explained the meaning of all those funky numbers: P205/60R16 91V. Then I went shopping for tires (Part II) and explained everything hidden in the price. Now I’ll share how I bought the tires I wanted at a significant discount with a few freebies thrown in for good measure.
ASK FOR WHAT YOU WANT
Continued from Part II…
“Sir, I want these tires, but I can’t pay $164/ea for them.”
“Well, what is your budget?”
[Bingo! He let me know the price was flexible.]
“My ‘budget’ is whatever I think is reasonable.”
“Ok, ma’am. We usually charge $5/tire for xx, $5/tire for xx, $2/tire for xx, plus $10 for shop supplies. Would it help if I included all of that in the $164 price?
“Yes, it would help, but I still think it’s too much. How much is your next lower Goodyear tire?”
“We have the Goodyear Eagle LS. Those are $146.99 but the warranty is only 40,000 miles.”
“And the warranty on the Triple Tred?”
“85,000.”
“Hmm, ok. Can you sell me the Triple Tred tires for the Eagle LS price?”
“I don’t know about that…”
“Well I’m going to hold off for now. I need to go home and do more research on your competitors.”
“Wait, would you like to speak with the manager?”
“Sure.”
The manager came over and gave me some bogus explanation that I can’t remember. Actually, I don’t even think I was listening. I knew I was NOT paying $164 for ONE daggone tire! So he offered to discount the ’set’ by $32.
“I really appreciate it sir, but that’s only a reduction of $8/tire.”
“Actually, it’s $22.50/tire (8 + 5 + 5 + 2 + 2.50), we’ll include installation in the total price.”
[Bingo! He was willing to keep talking.]
“If you give me the Triple Tred for the Eagle LS price with discounts (164 to 147 – 8, installation included), I’ll buy them. Although I’m sure I can find them somewhere else cheaper.”
“Ma’am, if we do that, I’m confident you won’t find them any cheaper.”
*smiling* “Would you put that in writing?”
More talking, more stalling, blah blah blah…
By the end of the conversation, I bought a set of Triple Tred for $139/each. Total on the rim and out the door price was $556 + $1/tire for VA disposal fee + 5% sales tax. Since the manager was so “confident” in his price, he gave me a 30 day price/ride guarantee. Meaning, if I found them cheaper OR for whatever reason, was not happy with the tires, they would refund the difference or give me a different tire.
THEN ASK FOR SOME MORE
I bought the tires and went home $588 poorer. But my gut was nagging because getting that price was way too easy. I needed to relax my suspicions by doing my own research. And what do ya know?!? A few online searches revealed several retailers selling the same tire for $3-$50 cheaper. Of course, most of the prices were for the tire only (i.e. no installation) and a few were Internet only retailers plus shipping costs to your home. Some prices were also cheaper but the tire was a different size. So after a process of elimination, I narrowed it down to three retailers and made a few calls to compare apples to apples:
- Retailer #1: $129 plus $15 in add-ons
- Retailer #2: $119 plus $25 in add-ons
- Retailer #3: $99 plus $25 in add-ons – BINGO!!!
I noted the name, location, person speaking and phone number of retailer #3 and confirmed what was included in the fully loaded estimate of $124.
I called the store where I purchased the tires and told them what I had found. Since I couldn’t show proof with a “sales paper or coupon,” they refused to honor the price. Even after sharing the details of my notes and providing the contact information, they still refused to honor the promise, stating the competitor’s price had to be “in print.”
A little irritated by this change in tone, I had to get sassy.
“You know, the only reason I purchased these expensive tires is because I trusted your “price/ride” guarantee. I’m not happy with the price. What are you going to do about it?”
“What do you want me to do?”
“I want you to refund me an additional $15/tire plus tax.”
“Ma’am, I can’t do that unless I see a competitor’s sales paper or coupon or something.”
DON’T GIVE UP, KEEP PUSHING FOR A BETTER PRICE
“I wasn’t given that constraint when you were trying to sell the tires. You have not honored your end of the bargain, so I don’t want these tires at all.”
“What?!?!”
“I also have a 30 day RIDE guarantee. Now that I’ve had an opportunity to research your other tires online, I want to bring these back and exchange them for the Yokohama Avid H4S or the Bridgestone Potenza G009.”
I wasn’t bullshitting. I did finally research the performance specs and prices of other tires. Had I researched my options BEFORE going into the store, one of these would have been my choice – lower quality and shorter warranty, but acceptable specs and a significantly lower price.
“But that’s a downgrade. Are you sure?”
“Yep.”
“May I put you on hold please?”
“Sure.”
[doody doo...on hold about 3 minutes]
Different person picks up the line…manager I assume.
“Ma’am, I understand you’re not happy with the tires you purchased on Saturday. What can we do to make you happy?”
“I want to exchange these tires for the Yokohama Avid H4S or Bridgestone Potenza G009.”
“We’ve checked our inventory, the Bridgestone isn’t in stock and we only have two of the Yokohama.”
“Order them.”
[silence]
“Listen, I’ll be honest. I don’t want to take back 4 tires that I can’t resell and I don’t want you in 4 tires that you’re not happy with. What can I do to make this easier for both of us?”
“I don’t know. Give me a few options.”
“How about I give you the $60 and throw in a few coupons for a free oil change?”
*blank stare* Isn’t that what I wanted in the first place!!
“B-but, the other guy said…”
“I know, I know. It’s not our practice to “downgrade” tires and we do prefer to see competitive prices in writing. But I’d rather give you the money and a few coupons if it’ll satisfy you.”
“What time do you close today?”
“7pm.”
“I’ll stop by this evening.”
FABULOUS FINANCIAL LESSON(S) LEARNED
1) Before making a big ticket purchase, do your research FIRST if possible.
2) ALWAYS ask for what you want.
3) Don’t give up just because you hear NO.
4) Get ALL verbal “promises” in writing.
At the end of the day, I bought a set of Goodyear Triple Tred tires for $124/each (25% off the original price) with an 85,000 mile warranty, plus two coupons for a free oil change. More than I asked for, so I’m satisfied…for now. BUT – if I find them cheaper within the next 24 days, I’m going back AGAIN. LOL They shouldn’t make promises they can’t keep! Hmph!
I hope you found this series informative. Happy tire shopping!
Related Articles:
Part I: Tire Basics – What do those numbers mean?
Part II: Shopping for Tires – What’s included in that price?
Part III: Buying Tires – Ask for what you want, then ask for some more.
[image credit: clipartof.com]
This blog is a personal account of my journey to achieve financial freedom. If you like what you've read, feel free to subscribe via (feed reader) or (email) to follow along.
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Fabulous Financials » My Tire Buying Experience - Part II (Pingback), 1 March 2008, 6:00
[...] III: Buying Tires – Ask for what you want, then ask for some more. ~*~*~*~*~*~ Work to achieve, not to acquire. And as always, BE FABULOUS! SHARETHIS.addEntry({ [...]
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What a great real life example of negotiating!
Many people feel that you can’t negotiate prices, service or other things as a customer, particularly in a large store–but this is good proof that you can. I’m impressed, and inspired!
I am so impressed with your negotiating skills! What is funny is how I could feel the anxiety building up inside myself after each paragraph of your story. I have always had this issue where I don’t want to “bother” anyone. Nope, just pay the price and get out of the way. Now FM, if there is a way to teach us how not to care about “hurting someone’s feelings”, you’d probably make a mint!
Thanks so much for posting about your experience! I may need to buy new tires soon for my 5-year-old Toyota. I had *NO CLUE* about tire purchasing, though I know I would have done some research. Your story has encouraged me to do the research now rather than wait until a tire blows or I get my car inspected and can’t drive it off the lot without new tires. Can you tell us about some of the sites you visited to do your tire research?
OMG! This is right on time! You did a great job negotiating, being a firm, and not backing down! Love it! I’ll be bookmarking this post for future reference : )
Not only do many people think that you “can’t” negotiate, but I also think people just don’t want to bother, since it is a lot of work and energy. But I’m a lot like you, and I absolutely refuse to spend more money on something when I know I can get it for less! Especially when it’s significantly less and/or when other features or amenities are thrown in. So this was great to read and I’m sure helpful to many!
Wow, you are a serious negotiator. I wish I could negotiate half as well as you. I never thought about researching the tires I buy for my car. I just go and ask for the lowest price tires not really knowing how long they will last me and if they are even any good. For my next tire purchase or any future purchase I plan to do my research. Reading your blog has been a tremendous help for my finances and other aspects of my life. I have even caught myself quoting information from your blog to others (giving you the credit of course). Thanks for all that you do SingleMa!
Single Ma, you blow my mind with these stories. My dad, a professional collective-bargaining negotiator, is always trying to get me to develop skills like yours!
You are my hero. Seriously.
My dad has a BMW (not sure why, cause he is poor) but anyway, he stops by the BMW dealer about a once a month, and usually gets new tires for free or $20 each, these are castoffs that have lots of life in them, they just disregard them if a customer wants newer, better tires. You can ask about this at any dealer.
Way to go though for your negotians and getting it in writing.
Wow! How did you learn how to negotiate so well? This post made my lunch break. You GO, Single Ma!
Wow! You will have me thinking about negotiating prices every time I need to buy something. This was wonderful! Thanks for the information.
Okay, now I can’t wait until it’s time to purchase tires for my car! You’ve taught me so much with these lessons! They’ll never know what hit them when I get through with them! LOL
I love reading your how to series!! I know you said you use a cash back credit card, but I wish you could write a post on maximizing credit card rewards.
Your idea of “too easy” and my idea are two very different things! That was at least six offers you refused before leaving the store!
1. $164 each
2. $164 + $22 worth of free add-ons
3. Worse tires for $146.99
4. Speak to manager (maybe this doesn’t count)
5. $156 each
6. $156 including add-ons
(lots more talking, with perhaps several more unacceptable offers)
7. $139 each + guarantee (accepted)
As the others have said, this step-by-step run-down is quite valuable. It’s one thing to say never settle, don’t give up, etc. But I can see that my idea of doing this would have been to ask once, ask again (and probably get the same answer again) and then either give up and leave the store or give up and accept the latest offer.
It’s good to see that it takes asking many, many times in many, many ways to get real results.
I suspect the only way I’d be up to it is if I felt the whole industry I was having to deal with was slimy and deserved me to refuse their first 20 offers.
However, I can also see that it would be a big help to know ahead of time exactly what I want so that I don’t give up until I get it. Mostly this means I keep putting off purchases until what I want is available or until I have time to save up more money. But it’s good to see that in some situations, there is a way to speed up that process!
Hmm, it might be a good strategy for someone like me to just decide ahead of time to refuse the first six offers and see what happens.
This kind of entry is my idea of the perfect blog entry: sharing with others what you’re good at in such a way that we can get better ourselves. Thanks!
Single Ma, I usually love reading your posts, saving money here and there through creative means and gushing over your baby girl. Reading this post made me really uncomfortable, however. I realize bargaining is a talent– some can go through with it all the day (like you can) and some people are happy to be getting a service without being too overcharged. However, it’s my belief that people like you who bargain and bargain until the the retailer throws up his hands and gives you the price you want because they just don’t want to deal with you any more. They then turn around the charge whatever they “lost” in dealing with you to some other sorry schmuck (say, people like me). How much time did you spend negotiating, researching, calling? Was your time spent negotiating, researching etc worth your opportunity cost? You’d probably say yes, since it saved your about $160 total, I think, plus some extras. But what really bothered me further after reading this post is that you’re not in debt anymore. It sometimes reads like you’re playing some game, aggressively seeking out bargains when, in fact, your financials look much healthier than most other people, though probably not as much as you’d prefer. You talk about not having money because you keep yourself to a strict budget. In the past, you had posted about not having set aside money for your daughter’s ticket to attending a function. In the end you declined to take the same ticket offered by a reader, because you had said that it was not your intention to take someone else’s opportunity away when you’re not exactly without funds.
Because you’ve finished off paying your debt and am now in your way to build wealth, the focus of the blog is different. I realize that you are living the same as you did (no blowing your budget on shoes because you don’t have to make car payments and student loan payments) when you had debt and put that money towards your new goal of building wealth–understandable. But it bothers me when you devote 3 entire, lengthy, and detailed posts on how you saved money because the post(s) read as if it were an account of how you were able to save money by treating someone, or a company, as some conquest, something to be dealt with, what seems to me to, get something from them in a way that is not fair.
Sorry to be such a downer after so many positive comments above mine. After you had paid off all your debts, your tone in the blog has changed, just enough to make me squirm when I read some of the posts. What can I say? Maybe it’s just my being jealous about your ability to bargain, and the time that you have to devote to these matters.
My initial instinct was to get defensive and respond to your comment aggressively, but you have expressed your thoughts in such a tactful manner, you deserve better. Although I take exception to many of the things you’ve said, I’ll just say I’m sorry that you think the tone of my blog has taken a turn (for the worse?) since I’ve been out of debt. I’m not sure what you think I *should* talk about or how I *should* come across on my blog, but life is about growth and continuous development. No matter what I accomplish, I’m still the same Single Ma inside.
I’m curious though, would you rather I *not* share my experience to benefit others?
To answer your question, I spent approx 1 hour researching online (not all in one sitting) and on the phone, plus approx 2 hours in the store (mostly *waiting* for my car). So the time specifically dedicated to getting a better deal was a little over 1 hour total. My billable rate is nowhere near $160/hr, so yes, it was worth it. To be honest, it took even longer to prepare these posts (write, proofread, find images, include appropriate reference links, etc.) for the series. Not only did I save money, but considering the positive reader feedback via comments and private emails, I’d say both efforts were time well spent. [-SM]
as, instead of complaining about her skill in negotiating, perhaps you should take some notes and not be one of the “schmucks.” Single Ma, and many others like her, got out of debt for reasons just like this–careful examination of her personal financial goals, cutting costs in any manner possible, sticking to a plan that will save her money, etc. These are the habits of the “Millionaire Next Door” folks, who do exactly what Single Ma did in all aspects of their lives. This is why people like her are debt-free and, no offense, people like you aren’t (I’m assuming).
The most recent comments were interesting.
Re the comment critical about the hard negotiating: although I appreciate the civility with which the point of view was expressed, I am reminded of the saying, “Hate the Game, not the Playa.”
Single Ma, thank you for your equally respectful answer. I did spend some time composing my initial comment, because I didn’t want to offend you in any way, given the time I’ve enjoyed reading your blog.
Your blog hasn’t taken a turn for the worse, by any means, but it’s not the same as it was when you were so motivated to get (climb?) out of debt. Life is about growth and continuous development, it’s true, but it’s also a way to move on. To my eyes, bargaining and haggling is sometimwa worth the time, but not often. I don’t want to say that it’s something I’ve outgrown– everyone loves a bargain. But I the more I think of it, I believe that it’s just the tone of the 3-part series that put me off. As I mentioned, the posts read like a play-by-play of a game that you were hell-bent on winning, and it sounded like one where you weren’t going to be played for a fool… It seems to me that you wouldn’t have been so long-winded (sorry, I couldn’t think of a better word) about it in the past, but instead would have easily summed it up in one post, nothing but positive outlook for more opportunities to gain an inch in the future. The series of posts read like some showstopper bonanza. And no, I do think that you should continue to share these stories, but the delivery seemed “off” to me. I guess it’s possible that the current pressures of your career are also making you hyper-aggressive.
One of the aspects of your blog that I truly enjoyed was the fact that you are someone who has seen and been through it all, the good and bad. This kind of motivation isn’t one that I get often reading financial blogs, but yours was very inspiring and also, really, really funny. Thank you for that.
Matt, while I did indeed refer to myself as a “schmuck,” I am debt-free and have always been. I do follow most of the habits of fiscally responsible population that abound (I tend to splurge on food– a lot). And as I admitted above, what I ultimately found lacking was Single Ma’s delivery, not necessarily her bargaining skills. Cutting costs to save money is a valuable trait, I agree; but I wouldn’t (and couldn’t) do it for every minutiae of life lest it become a game, because hyper-penny-pinching has been known to take over the good intentions of the most frugal of persons, and it, indeed, becomes a game for them.
I appreciate your follow up but it added no value to your previous comment. It clearly shows that you haven’t been a long term reader because I always write series posts when I purchase big ticket items or negotiate more favorable terms and conditions. I don’t have time to find the links but my experience buying a car, dealing with a collection agency, my home builder’s service department, and the furniture delivery company come to mind. If you think any of my posts are long winded or make you feel put off, you are free to ignore them. I wouldn’t recommend anyone waste their precious time reading something that isn’t interesting. Whether I consider it a game or not is irrelevant. The bottom line is, I am very selective about WHERE and HOW my money is spent, so I will always pursue AND obtain the BEST value. That’s the beauty of competition.
Further, my career “pressures” have NOTHING to do with my delivery or negotiation tactics. In fact, if you knew what I did for a living, you would realize how silly the correlation sounds. At any rate, I appreciate you expressing your thoughts but they will not change what I choose to share with my readers. Everything you read here is all ME, hate it or love it, it is what it is. Sorry, I can’t give refunds on FREE information. ;-) [-SM]
I love your blog Single Ma, but I agree to some extent with the AS poster. It might just be that hard bargaining is something we are not really comfortable with in our society. I keep thinking back to your current job search and how you have recognized that you have a value that is not being appreciated by your current employer. They are pushing you too far for too little in an environment that seems to lack respect.
Is that not kind of like what you did with the tire company….it seems you might have pushed the tire company too far because you have little value/respect for them. Or, more accurately, you have more value for your money than you do for their business.
Nevertheless, I’ll be anxiously waiting for the next post. Your blog has provided me insight far beyond the financial realm and I am incredibly grateful for the time you spend here.
If bargaining is something you’re not comfortable with, perhaps it’s something you should try to learn. Like I told the previous commenter, I see no correlation to my career at all. Your example is a huge stretch, don’t you think. Demanding the best value for my money is not disrespectful, and I didn’t force them to do anything. They made a promise and I held them to it. Common sense to me. Actually, if I didn’t demand the best value and hold them to their promise, I would be disrespecting myself.
“you have more value for your money than you do for their business” Absolutely!! It would be stupid to think otherwise.
Thank you for expressing your opinion though. If you keep reading, I’ll keep writing. [-SM]
I loved this series of posts. It reminded me of the negotiating I did when I recently bought our summer vacation. I started on Expedia and found that I had a $100 coupon for travel done by June 30th 2008. But we are traveling in mid August 2008!
So I called customer support at Expedia to ask them to extend the coupon. The first person flat-out would not do it. So I stayed on phone got moved around the customer support system and I finally found a nice customer representative. I told her how we are on a budget and how this trip is important to us because I am meeting my girlfriends mom in Puerto Rico for the first time. (all true) . She went back to her manager twice for me. First time the manager would not do anything. The second time she told me she really could not extend my coupon but she could give me another coupon for $50 that expires in February 2009!
The best part of the story is that after all that, while I was on those long holds I kept researching our vacation on other sites. I was able to get the EXACT same trip + hotel + car rental for $300 less from Priceline.com! William Shatner hooked me up! :D So now I have $150 in travel coupons from Expedia that I will use for something else.
I try to negotiate everything! (well on purchases over $100, or if I get a *sense* there is some give) I learned that one key to negotiating is to keep talking to people. And if you really get nowhere, try again later with someone else.
All I could think while reading this post is, “dam this woman is *hardcore*!” I endeavour to be as good a negotiator as you.
Wow! Even in the comment section you are holding it down! This comment you made here ““you have more value for your money than you do for their business” Absolutely!! It would be stupid to think otherwise.” Priceless.
I did think that once you got out of debt, your blog would change. I thought you would spend money more freely, but you proved me wrong. You are more ganster than before and I’ll continue reading.
Thanks for being you!
Single Ma, I got hooked on your blog when I somehow found your series about disputing something with amex. Then I had to read your ENTIRE blog before I would even start looking at current posts. It was well worth the time. If one doesn’t challenge businesses to give you the best service, value, whatever, why should they??? They’re in the business to make money. And I’m trying to get the most for my money. So all yall over there who don’t feel comfortable “negotiating” which should really mean, I’m scared of rejection cause they might say no, just keep doing what you’re doing. I’ll be over here getting deals and putting the difference in my HYS.
I think the point of these posts are to do your research and don’t be afraid to ask. You asked for a lower price and they gave it to you. He did not have to offer your the 30 day money back guarantee, you did not make him do that. He could have said ‘no’ to your request for the lower tire price and you would have taken your business elsewhere, as you have that right. As a consumer you made a purchase and expected them to hold up their end of the bargain, which, fortunately they did. Most people in America are uncomfortable with negotiating because it is atypical here, but it’s quite common in the rest of the world.
I’ve got to say, tires are too expensive. I always call around, read the ads and compare prices online before I step into a store. And there’s always tirerack.com which is usually cheaper but it’s online so you have to have the tires delivered. I got some Yokohama’s awhile back for my Toyota, and I was a happy camper after doing extensive research on quality/tread/etc balanced with price.
From a first-time reader:
Hmmmm…by the end of the story the techniques had shape-shifted from reasonable to pretty hardnosed. For negotiators displaying this drive and persistence (is obnoxiousness too strong a word?) one wonders if something primal is at work, and if the dollars are not the goal but merely the scoreboard.
Ethically, I’m glad the story didn’t end with the dealer forced to accept those now-used and unsalable tires. Because the next step might have been to come back the following day and offer to take them off his hands for $5 each, thereby saving even more money the next time the car needed tires.
What in the hell does being ethical have to do with it? Had I lied about the competitive prices, unethical, yes. Had I not accepted his last offer and pushed for even more without any substantiation for demanding more, unethical, maybe. I did neither. But I’m OBNOXIOUS and UNETHICAL for negotiating a decent price and holding them to THEIR promise? Yea, ok.
And honey, you BETTER BELIEVE it, had they not given me a refund of the difference, they would have taken these tires back with the quickness! I didn’t think of asking to buy them back for $5 each, but now that you mention it, that’s pure genius. Ha! Thanks for the idea, I’ll remember it next time. LOL Although negotiations are about making reasonable requests, but I don’t expect you to know that, I may have offered $50-75/tire. Let’s say that did happen and I asked to buy the tires for $5. I can ask all day long and they have the free will to say no. But if they agreed to sell them back to me for $5 each, it makes ME unethical? *blank stare*
Anyhoo, call it what you will. If negotiating makes you uncomfortable, then it sounds like a personal issue related to lack of self esteem, confidence, and gumption to go after what you want. It’s a skill that serves me well in EVERY aspect of my life and I will continue to use it at EVERY opportunity I feel is necessary. For those of you who feel sorry for the “poor” tire company, then YOU keep right on giving YOUR money away so you can sleep well at night. When it comes to MY money, there is no room for personal emotion. This is business. [-SM]
For most people, ethics has a great deal to do with how we behave in personal and business relations. And it should. Articulating the ethical side of the tire transaction allowed me to put my finger on why I was uncomfortable with the lengths resorted to in the blog.
There’s no reason to feel insecure – judging by the responses, the blog’s advocates certainly outnumber its detractors. However, verbal table pounding aside, perhaps your response underscores why a few of us feel oddly uneasy with your business practices.
You have failed to identify what you “fingered” as unethical, so I will no longer waste my time continuing a one-sided discussion with you. If what I write on my blog makes you feel “uncomfortable” and my business practices make you feel “oddly uneasy”, may I suggest you stop reading it. And I mean that in the most respectful way. [-SM]
The most important piece of the read was “ask for what you want”. I don’t know how many times I’ve said that in MANY of my posts. It’s 5 key words that will certainly put it out there! Nicely done! (first time visitor, but certainly not last)!
Single ma, I’m a first time reader and a new fan! I wish I knew your work before I just threw four new rubbers on my charger! Keep up the great posts, I have lots to learn from you.
Mike
Personally I would have responded to those “different” comment with “I’m sorry you feel that way” or not responded at all. Blogging puts you in a position to be criticized and scrutinized (you know this). Who cares what other people have to say, unless it is constructive. Next time just brush it off and keep it moving, you do it anyway. So why waste your time with responding, it’s just THEIR opinion.
Single Ma-Your fabulous posts absolutely make my day. I am currently shopping for new tires and will read and reread your experience for inspiration. You were right on with the comment that self esteem plays a role in one’s negotiating skills, and this post gives me encouragement in both areas.